JESUS HAD HIS WIRES CROSSED

The idea of hell is incompatible with the Golden Rule

If everyone who ever lived was doomed to suffer eternal torture then it would massively reduce the total suffering the human race had experienced to prevent that suffering. It would be a loving, caring thing to prevent that suffering. If a God had erased hell so that no human could go there then that would have prevented and avoided a nearly infinite amount of suffering and the suffering of humans while on Earth would seem relatively trival by comparison. God would have needed to jump into hell and abolish it to be worthy of love & adoration. To win the right to save people but then only choose to save a minority would be mostly cruel, bad, unjust etc.

What of the suffering of humans while on Earth ? After the human race has come to an end and if an account could be made, nothing could be done to undo the suffering that was experienced. Only by preventing  suffering by intervening, giving the knowledge to make medicines & avoid illness or stopping the crime before it happened could the total suffering have been reduced & the situation  made better. By contrast, sending all those who caused suffering to an eternal suffering would only  increase the total suffering of the human race.

I was brought up going to church. I have heard most of the views about the Bible. My conclusion is that the idea of hell is incompatible with the Golden Rule. 

The idea of a perfect, loving God is incompatible with the idea of hell.

 If a perfect God had practiced due diligence then hell would not have come into existence. 

If Jesus had won the victory over a hell then to be a hero he would have needed to save everyone or change the game plan so that it was a choice of heaven or extinction. 

If you have to do to others as you would have them do to you then since no one would wish to go to an eternal torture then you could not agree to send someone else to hell. 

A caring God would have had a duty of care to prevent anyone becoming liable for hell. With so many habitable planets in the universe it would have been easy to wipe out Earth as soon as a hell came into existence and start again on another planet.

 For God so loved the world that he not only allowed suffering in this world but also sent most to eternal suffering ? Doesn't really fit does it ? For God so loved the world that he erased hell so that at least when people died they could rest in peace; sounds better.

What can you say of a God who was all knowing yet stood by and did not inform humanity to the ways to prevent suffering. We now know from science & technology that there were many things that could have been done to reduce pain & suffering. Yet none of these ideas came from Jesus or Biblegod. In fact Jesus mislead people into thinking that the only thing that could be done was prayer / casting spells.

The idea of hell is incompatible with the golden rule

The golden rule says to aim to treat others as you want them to treat you.
So if you think that the golden rule is a good rule of thumb then ask yourself if you would want to be sent to a hell of eternal suffering ( if such a thing existed ) If the answer is no then how could you agree to send others to hell ? Not possible. How could a God who lived by the golden rule send any human to hell ?

The idea of hell is incompatible with the concept of a loving, perfect God. An almighty caring God would have needed to prevent a hell coming into existence and if it had would have had a duty to prevent any human becoming liable to go to hell. God could have terminated this planet as soon as a hell came into existence, before any human was liable to end up in hell. If there are many habitable planets in the Universe it should have been easy for a god to start another human race elsewhere and hopefully that god would have learned some lessons on how to prevent everything going pear shaped.

In any case hell / hades / Tartarus look like fictional places.
2 Peter 1v16 claims,"We did not follow cleverly invented tales"
Yet 2 Peter 2v4 uses the name Tartarus in the original Greek which was a dungeon in the mythical Hades. "For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to tartarus, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgement"

I agree with the Bible passages which say, "Love your neighbour", "Treat others as you want them to treat you", "Love does no harm", "Do not murder", "Greater love has no man than that he lay down his life for his friend", "Anyone who claims to be in the light but hates his brother is still in the darkness"
I think these ideas are not compatible with the idea of hell. The Bible has its wires crossed on this point. It is like sewing a patch of new cloth onto an old wine bottle, the bottle will split. Spotting and accepting that there is a contradiction about this matter is like rending in two the curtain separating the holy of holies in the Temple of Jerusalem. Or it is like Samson pushing apart the two columns holding up the pagan temple. Or it is like the story about Samson about finding the hive of bees in the carcass of the lion,"Out of the eater something sweet" or it is like saying if you had skepticism the size of a grain of mustard you would say to the mistaken ideas in the Bible to pick themselves up an be thrown in the sea.
The stories about Jesus can save us from the myths of hell and show that it is not real.

Universalism or atheism ? How can we react to people who have caused others to suffer?

 Why would I need to worry about any of Jesus ideas about heaven & hell  if I thought that there was a supernatural being who was definitely going to take us all to a happily ever after ?  I think if there was a loving God and if we had an immortal part and if there was a heaven to go to then I would be taken there along with everyone else, washed, cleansed, renewed. But if we have no spirit or soul then we will go back to nothing which isn't a problem either. I have to admit it grates to think of some of the tyrants of history going to a happily ever after, so they can just go extinct.
If you think that someone who has caused severe suffering to others should be punished then how much suffering can they be sentenced to before you have done a worse deed than the person you criticized ? If we sentence the Nazis to eternal torment will we be acting worse than they did ? I think prevention & restitution is the only real solution

The Jedi has again failed to return on May the 4th, will his record be as bad as Jesus ?

Another May the 4th has come & gone with no sign of the return of the Jedi, seems like he might be as fictional as Jesus.
Jesus greatest error was to fail to notice that Hades was an idea invented by the Greeks or Zoroastrians. The ancient Egyptians fantasied about a judgement day too, with the ones whose heart weighed light being thrown to the crocodile god to be eaten or burned up like chaff in a fire. They needed to know the secret names of the gods and their mysteries to sail into the afterlife. Last time I heard their bodies were still with us.
Jesus also failed to recognise it isn't loving, caring or just to let people suffer for ever after death, in any case how could they if they have no spirit or soul ? Ecclesiates 9v5-6,"The dead know nothing...never again will they have a part in anything under the sun". [ How could that fit with Matt 27v52 which has folk resurrecting ? It contradicts Jesus alleged resurrection ] Even the author of Romans 13v10 scolds the ideas about judgement attributed to Jesus,"Love does no harm to its neighbour". How can you claim to love your neighbour while you approve the idea that they should suffer for ever more ? 1 John 2v9,"Anyone who claims to be in the light but hates his brother is still in the darkness. ". If Jesus had won the victory over a hell why not save everyone & abolish hell totally ? Because then priests would make less money ? Jesus claimed to be the light but maybe he was the darkness - someone with his wires crossed ?
Jesus failed to note that the O.T describes a God who fails to prevent things going pear shaped.
Thomas Paine noted that the gospels have Jesus taken up to a high place but somehow he fails to notice the Americas.
To me Jesus was more like a detour, half truths and a degraded life
Jesus failed to explain the causes of earthquakes, he showed no knowledge of plate tectonics, he gave no advice about which areas of the planet to avoid building on or on how to design buildings that would be resilient to earthquakes. Luke 21v11 makes Jesus say that earthquakes are a sign & omen rather than just something that has always happened and always will until the Sun becomes a red giant.
Jesus or his creators failed to predict any detail of the science and technology that came after the first century. The 21st century we know was completely unknown to him or any other founder of a religion.
The religion of the 21st century that counts is the one of attention to detail and being on the ball.

James 5v16 Vs Roman 3v10

How is it that there are millions of 'holy' folk on the planet claiming a direct line to their personal God yet none of them has ever been able to give a 24 hour warning about an earthquake about to occur so that people can stand clear of the buildings ?

But now lets pray for the victims?

Like the Epicurean paradox sort of says, if there is a god then he is guilty of not doing the good he should ( if all knowing and all powerful ) However there are some decent excuses such as that he is so far away that he can't see Earth due to the brightness of our Sun. It is only in the last few years that astronomers have developed the technology to be able to make out the existence of exo-planets orbiting distant stars.

Recently David Cameron was at the Holy Ghost Festival of Life in London headed by pastor Daddy GO ( General Overseer / Witch doctor ) who was asking people to pray that there would be no earthquakes and natural disasters.
"The prayer of a righteous man is powerful & effective"-NIV James 5v16
Lack of success could be explained by
Romans 3v10 "There is no one righteous, not even one"

See point 5 from the International section, oops.

festivaloflife etc/event/2015-prophecy
Prophecy for the Year 2015 by Pastor E.A Adeboye

INDIVIDUAL:

For those who fasted for 100 days last year;

1. The Lord says the harvest for the 100 days fast will be given this year.
2. Daddy says this year will be full of testimonies; those who have none before will have this year.
3. Daddy says some of you will swim in the river of abundance this year.

4. Daddy says there will be miraculous completion of projects.
5. Daddy says there will be fulfilment of dreams.
6. Daddy says there will be miraculous restoration.
7. Daddy says the song of many will be - The Lord has been good to me.

INTERNATIONAL:
1. Scientific and medical breakthrough will be many, particularly in the areas of lack of sleep, dreams and brain disorder.
2. Daddy says Ebola will die out.
3. Daddy says all over the world insurgency will be considerately weakened.
4. He asked us to pray against massive calamities.
5. He asked us to pray against massive earthquakes, strong hurricanes and typhoons.

For RCCG:
1. This year all you need is to charge off your batteries by fasting for 40 days only.
2. Those of you who want to fast continuously 20 days and 20 nights will cover the 40 days.
3. If you miss one day, you have to cover it with two days.

NIGERIA:
By the end of the year - you will say all is well that ends well.
The fasting begins January 2nd 2015.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The Chronicles of Narnia are interesting stories. One interpretation of "The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe" is that the white witch represents superstition & fantasy whereas Aslan represents a naturalistic view of the world or maybe even the scientific method. Some people while attempting to assert a supernatural story onto the world have tried to suppress the scientific method. They may at times celebrate as if they have won something. However looking at the deeper writings - in the genetic code, the fossils, the geology, astronomy and even the widest picture of what is known of human history, the evidence shows that the supernatural view was not real. ( Like Aslan we can have been lured into the Christian fantasy under tales about it being for the greater good or a necessity or under fears of hell, we may have been damaged and left without hope, left for dead but Aslan says to use the scientific method to study more deeply and widely, to see the secret writings which reveal that evolution is true, that there was no Adam & Eve etc So we realize that there is no hell, we have fresh hope and freedom from the nightmares of religion )

The gospels only claim that Jesus restored the sight of blind people to average naked eye vision, nowhere is there a claim that Jesus gave bionic vision to people, no where does Jesus say that if people could magnify the images then they would find the way to improve the quality of life for humans. Lenses have been one of the most major break throughs towards greater understanding of the world about us, both as used in microscopes and telescopes. Close & detailed observation has been the way to new truths.

Exodus 7v8 has the Lord turn a staff into a snake but if rocks (sand) had been turned onto lenses to make a telescope & microscope then a far greater miracle would have been demonstrated.

The scriptures are the story of people who were walking in darkness and didn't have a clue as to how to get to the light. The story is of people trying to improve their lives by casting spells and following arbitrary rituals which had little root in reason or reality.

Science showed us that many of our fears were misplaced, it revealed what the real challenges are. Science shows that some of our worst fears were unfounded but also that some of our greatest hopes are also unlikely. It has given us immensely greater understanding of our universe but also that there are vast mysteries that might never be answered.

The Bible is a book that contains the golden rule and ideas like Romans 13v10, "Love does no harm to its neighbour" and yet the authors and characters often fail to live by these ideals or to use them as a plumb line by which to test handed down doctrines, even though 1 Thessalonians 5v21 says to test everything. Hold onto the truth. John 16v13 talks of the need to be guided into all truth.

In Exodus chapter 11 & 12 are we to guess that the unnamed Pharaoh was not a firstborn and for that reason wasn't too worried by the threat of the first born dying ? Was it only first born males or females too ? Exodus 12v30 has all of Pharaoh's officials getting up so are we to assume none of them were first born or did it mean all the remaining ones that hadn't been smitten ? What about the claim in v 30 that there was not a house without someone dead, is it likely that every house would have had a firstborn person ? Did everyone live in longhouses with extended families, no houses with only a young childless couple or single old person who weren't first born ? Could the Egyptians of that time have determined when midnight was, what sort of clocks did they have pre 1000 BCE ? Why doesn't Exodus mention water clocks or star & merkhets as the means to determine midnight ?

The real question is that if a God could wipe out first born people then why not just go the whole way and wipe out all the Egyptians thus leaving Egypt for the Israelites ? Why not do it more humanely by just causing the Egyptians to be infertile over the previous 430 years ? If God could be so targeted in taking out the first born then why couldn't God have done a precision strike on Hitler & other cruel dictators ?

Ted Wright mentioned the partially fictional story of the "Raiders of the lost ark" which mentions the story of 2 Chronicles chapter 12 where Shishak swept up from Egypt with his army, I guess over the course of a few weeks, and v4 captured the fortified cities of Judah then raided Jerusalem v9 of 'everything' in the Temple of the Lord & palace of Solomon. So Shishak was able to do what Moses & co took over 40 years to do ? Also how come we have a name for the Eygptian king whereas in Exodus the Pharaoh is anonymous ? Do any of the Bible characters claim to have seen the Ark of the Covenant again after the 2 Chronicles events or could the Ark really have been stolen by Shishak and no one noticed ? The Bible certainly does not record when the Ark disappeared, it just forgets all about it.

How could it be possible for people to raid the Temple of the Lord when it clearly shows in "Raiders of the lost ark" that the presence of God was able to look after itself ; smiting all those Nazi soldiers ? Even 2 Samuel 6:1- 7 has Uzzah struck down for touching the Ark of the covenant even though he was well intentioned, trying to protect it.

Jesus the ergot ridden bread of madness

My saviour from babble looks like Valerie Tarico.

John 6v25 has Jesus say,"I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty"

On one hand this could be false advertising but on the other hand does Christianity act like a poison which subdues appetite and thirst for knowledge? Maybe Jesus is the bread with ergot in it. It certainly has errors got. But maybe as modern science has derived uses for ergot chemistry, Valerie's analysis of the Christ myth offers a cure and shows the scriptures are evidence that the supernatural realm is a failed hypothesis.

Ergotism is the effect of long term ergot poisoning, traditionally due to the ingestion of the alkaloids produced by the Claviceps purpurea fungus that infects rye and other cereals. The symptoms can be roughly divided into convulsive symptoms and gangrenous symptoms.

Convulsive symptoms include painful seizures and spasms, diarrhea, paresthesias, itching, mental effects including mania or psychosis, headaches, nausea and vomiting.

In the Middle Ages, the gangrenous poisoning was known as "holy fire" or "Saint Anthony's fire", named after monks of the Order of St. Anthony who were particularly successful at treating this ailment. However it wasn't until 1676 that the cause was identified by Denis Dodart.

In the last century ergoline drugs have been derived from ergot.

Ergotamine is used medicinally for treatment of acute migraine attacks (sometimes in combination with caffeine). Medicinal usage of ergot fungus began in the 16th century to induce childbirth, yet dosage uncertainties discouraged the use. It has been used to prevent post-partum haemorrhage (bleeding after childbirth). It was first isolated from the ergot fungus by Arthur Stoll at Sandoz in 1918 and marketed as Gynergen in 1921

In addition to the naturally occurring ergonovine (used as an oxytocic) andergotamine (a vasoconstrictor used to control migraine), synthetic derivatives of importance are the oxytocic methergine, the anti-migraine drugs dihydroergotamine and methysergide, hydergine (a mixture of dihydroergotoxine mesylates, INN: ergoline mesylates), and bromocriptine, used for numerous purposes including treatment of Parkinson's disease. Newer synthetic ergolines used for Parkinson's disease include pergolide and lisuride.

Ergot: the story of a parasitic fungus (1958) on Youtube channel Wellcome library tells the story well.

The limestone the builders didn't pay attention to became a stumbling block

The geological society of America says, " Karst geology played a major role in Jerusalem's selection by David for his capital," Bramnik says. It proved to be a wise decision. One of David's successors, King Hezekiah, watched as the warlike Assyrian horde, a group of vastly superior warriors toppled city after city in the region. Fearing that they'd soon come for Jerusalem, he too took advantage of the limestone bedrock and dug a 550 meter-long (1804 feet) tunnel that rerouted the spring's water inside the city's fortified walls."

  So were there tombs with limestone stones blocking the doorway?

 Wikipedia article on limestone says," Most limestone is composed of skeletal fragments of marine organisms such as coral or foraminifera."
 Hence life on Earth is much older than the 6000 years the Babble suggests. Check mate, get past that one Jesus. The limestone the builders rejected becomes a stumbling block for Christians that they can not roll out the way. 


How about this for a scenario: Maybe when the tomb diggers mined out the tomb, where Jesus ended up, they didn't realize that there was a sink hole a few inches under the floor of the tomb. On the day that Jesus died there were lots of people mining away at the limestone / chalk / gypsum forming tombs. There was an earthquake which made them panic and leave their work.With reference to Matthew 27v52; Visitors to Jerusalem for the passover saw the miners covered in white chalk dust and mistakenly assumed they were ghosts risen from the dead (As you do)   Later Jesus body was placed in the tomb and it was sealed with a round limestone stone. Another coincidental earthquake then happened which caused the now weakened floor of J.C's tomb to collapse. Jesus' body fell down the sink hole and then was flushed away by an underground stream. The earthquake also made the stone by the tomb entrance fall over. The disciple who looked into the tomb either couldn't see the hole in the dark or maybe some stone from the roof fell in afterwards and blocked the hole from view?  The disciples were so surprised by the shock of the earthquake and the absence of the body that they hallucinate, imagining that they see Jesus.
 However if there was a hole in the floor of the tomb maybe  the council indirectly found out and either sealed the tomb & covered it = so it is now hidden or perhaps they had the hold repaired.
A sort of mix of "Finding Nemo" and "Flushed away" 

[ Virutally impossible that  a sink hole would have formed there = its a miracle. But maybe millions of years ago there was a lot of water there ]